Workers returning to office should 100% happen, amirite?

I think you're mischaracterising reasons that make sense for the company, and reasons that make sense in general. The two you say are 100% the only ones the companies are interested in. I'm arguing that the reason of socialisation is compelling enough to avoid a crisis of adult loneliness that it too makes sense, for the sake of society as a whole.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Commuting time should be paid, but since that isn't going to happen I won't present that as a solution to the problem. I totally get the horrible burden that the daily commute is, and it's one of, if not the main reason to keep work from home. However, Id say that as long as jobs remain as centralised in cities as they are (something that won't change soon imo) that commuting is a practical reality, and it's not an argument against the social value of work in office. My point is that losing the social value of working in office is a big issue that will only be felt in a decade so.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

The problem is that the world has already "solved" commuting by making it optional for jobs that don't need it. It won't be easy to just take it back and force unpaid commuting again. Of course there is social value is working from office, I don't think this is unpopular. But this value comes at a price and workers really don't want to start paying this price again. Just like the business never paid the price and don't want to start doing it.

by Connlucious 1 month ago

It feels like trying to average extremely different cases and measure average happiness. This approach does not seem meaningful. There is a Bobby who lives in 5 minute walk from office and lives alone, and there is John who lives in 2 hours of road from office and lives with family and has 3 kids. Forced work from office is going to somewhat maybe benefit Bobby and it will greatly hurt John on multiple levels. How ethical it is to hurt one person to help another, and how would you even measure that you are doing more good than harm?

by Connlucious 1 month ago

The use of someone with a family is kind of beyond what I'm arguing for. Many people will meet their friends and partners through work, and therefore if that interaction didn't happen, they wouldn't have the friends or family to begin with. I understand people will be disproportionately affected, but that's life.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Thanks my guy

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Found the manager

by ApartBrain4293 1 month ago

Yeah this sounds like OP is a dude Most women have better social connections, and we have more luck approaching people. The fix for the male loneliness epidemic is letting them actually be human, have close friends. Probably not being done when most office have people old enough to be your parents.

by ApartBrain4293 1 month ago

i know this wasn't what you were getting at by pointing at that op is a dude, but i think it's also worth mentioning that i literally don't know a single woman who would prefer to go to the office when menstruating. and jobs that offer flexibility in this regard are just far nicer. like, i'll do the work but i would MUCH rather be doing it sitting on my bed in comfy pajamas. and a job that gives me that option is just a nicer job than one that forces me to get dressed and commute to the office when everything in my body hurts.

by alene70 1 month ago

Focussing on what isn't even a guarantee to ignore the pitfalls of forcing people to travel when they can be just as if not more productive in their own space.

by Legitimate_Pear 1 month ago

I don't think the 2nd place (work) can or should replace the 3rd place (a home away from home). We simply just need to put more focus into cultivating community outside of workplaces, which will never truly fulfill the role of a place you gather at by your own free will and engage in organic conversation with others.

by brakuskrystina 1 month ago

I don't want relationships with my co-workers. We are all there to do a job in order to be paid in order to go live our lives outside of work that we actually care about. I am friendly with my co-workers. I am professional with them. But other than happening to work for the same boss, we have nothing else in common.

by Several_Ad8425 1 month ago

And that's your choice. But can you tell me that you have no friends that have been developed through work?

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Don't you people have a social life outside of work? Cuz I am only working so I can have money. If I need to make friends, I will do so in my own time doing something I actually enjoy doing.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I'm saying the whole "social life outside of work" idea will be damaged when people cannot develop their social lives through work WHAT??? Dog you need to go outside, and not just to go to work.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Work from office shouldn't be enforced from a productivity standpoint, but instead from a social standpoint. Okay, then what is the value of enforced socialization? What is the societal net benefit of people who don't have anything in common being in forced proximity to each other being forced to interact with each other in ways no individual considers ideal? And, is that better than the freedom of socialization, where people can spend more time with their actual friends, of whom they have shared values and interests, instead of having to spend that time with coworkers?

by jordane54 1 month ago

Social networking is essentially an experiment in giving people the option of NOT socializing. Most Americans have taken it and I don't think that anyone would argue that we aren't 10000 times worse off for it.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Enforced socialisation is how you actually make those friendships. The same points could be made about school and university, it's pushing people who have little in common together, and from that comes most people's closest friends. The freedom of socialisation doesn't work without people having people to socialise with, and that most easily occurs when people are forced to interact with a large amount of people.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

and that most easily occurs when people are forced to interact with a large amount of people. But it doesn't have to? People can choose to interact however they please. If someone were to join a bowling league because they like the sport of bowling, and they make friends with other bowlers, those bonds will be just as, if not better, than those they make with people they're just forced to be close with, given an equal amount of exposure time.

by jordane54 1 month ago

It likely will, but the problem is the majority of people don't, and won't, do that. It's a huge problem of people self isolation because social interaction becomes so unfamiliar after leaving education.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I am a grownup. I don't need my workplace enforcing socialization. That's my role to decide upon for myself. They already get to make way too many choices regarding my healthcare. Forced commutes are bad for people and the environment, it's a waste of resources.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

There are certain people, like the OP, who just have a NEED to socially interact and want to go to the office to do that. For me, I'm much more productive at home. I'm a natural networker. When I'm in the office, I'm spending all day having chats with people. At home, I call people when I want to speak to them but can pump out more work. The fact I can hang out with my cats and not have to wear shoes is a bonus. I think businesses should offer space for those who have a need to be in the office. They have a right to work in the way which works best for them too.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Do you think the OP is trying to force their extroversion onto others?

by Legitimate_Pear 1 month ago

A hybrid option is probably the best solution, but it probably fails in the financial efficiency sense. But I agree with just about everything you say.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Work is not the primary method of meeting people, especially to form relationships. In fact, many companies have strong rules about dating coworkers.

by harrisbraeden 1 month ago

meeting online has become the most popular way couples meet, eclipsing meeting through friends for the first time around 2013

by harrisbraeden 1 month ago

Gathering with people youve chosen solves this problem

by julie97 1 month ago

And the people you choose are often found through work, or some other environment when you're forced to interact with people.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

And if your chosen people are from work you can see them anywhere. I have friends from work we see each other outside of work all the time

by julie97 1 month ago

Yes, which you wouldn't have made without work. I'm not saying work is the place to have all social engagements, I'm saying it means you have the option to develop friendships to then take outside of work

by Anonymous 1 month ago

You have that option everywhere. I formed those friendships with WFH

by julie97 1 month ago

Of course it's an option everywhere, but its easiest in person

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Again my question is why does the meeting in person mean employees have to go back into the office instead of just forming relationships outside

by julie97 1 month ago

I can't tell you the number of times I have gone to the office and not talked to a single person all day. Not even "hello." And if social interaction is needed, we have video calls. People don't like video calls, you say? Please tell that to my boss, who demands we all come to the office, and then holds office meetings over zoom. All of us sitting by ourselves in our offices, within feet of each other, on a video call. The days of "working in the office" died when the internet was invented. Managers simply haven't gotten the memo yet.

by Several_Ad8425 1 month ago

However, there will be days where you do interact. How many of your friends, past or current, were met through work? I'd bet there's been at least a few

by Anonymous 1 month ago

Incentivize instead of force socializing and don't just tie it to work.

by Susiewyman 1 month ago

If it is forced for most of your childhood, why does it need to still be forced even after graduating? If being forced to be in social environments did not work in school, why do you think the workplace will be any different? Who is this to the benfit of exactly?

by delfina59 1 month ago

Or, if socialization actually mattered, then lower the amount of hours people need to work a day in order to explore external activities of their own choice. Or more jobs should switch to the 4/10 or 9/80 schedule. There are better ways than forcing people in an office that they don't want to be in.

by delfina59 1 month ago

Hours worked doesn't matter if the social environment doesn't exist. Adult life isn't catered to allow for easy interaction, so it often just doesn't happen. I'm not saying the office is the best environment for socialisation, but I am saying it's a hell of a lot better than people working from home

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I actually agree with the social benefits of RTO to a degree but as a person changes and grows they will often get married and have kids. Work from home has allowed many parents to spend much more time with their families than they previously could and I would say that is more valuable than time spent with coworkers.

by Material_Piccolo 1 month ago

And I'm say that many people meet their wife/husbands at work, which would no long happen with mass scale work from home. The whole work life balance point works now, but in a few decades it'll be different, as less people will have the family to spend time with.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I will admit it was far easier to collaborate and develop working relationships when we worked in an office. However, I'm so close to retirement that if they forced the issue I'd just quit.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I am partial to a hybrid environment. As you mention, collaboration and developing working relations is much easier and projects seem to go more smoothly and efficiently when the team is there with each other. Speaking to what I believe is the OPs point...I don't think socialization should be forced, but I know quite a few people now who've been WFH since the spring of 2020 and they seem like zombies relative to how they used to be. I do think we're likely to see some kind of unintended MH crisis stemming from this. I'm home 2x per week and office 3x per week.

by Sad-Knowledge 1 month ago

While I understand what OP is saying, I think the benefits of wfh outweigh the drawbacks. Especially for people with families.

by veumcaleigh 1 month ago

I would agree currently. However, the problem is in a decade, there will be a noticeable impact of people not meeting partners and therefore not having families because they don't have that opportunity through work. I know many people who met their current partners through work, including my own parents, and that would not have happened without in the office interaction

by Anonymous 1 month ago

This is what I'm trying to say. A lot of people are seemingly assuming that because they have friends outside of work, they don't need social interaction from work. However, like you say, many of those friends will be encountered through work, meaning if you never had that environment those friends wouldn't exist, therefore there is no social life outside of work

by Anonymous 1 month ago

did a CEO write this?

by Present-Contact-2687 1 month ago

this is not a valid opinion, even. you don't know — nor can you speak for — most jobs. you're naive to think your own experience can literally apply to ANY job that has an office.

by AdvancedCompany 1 month ago

I don't go to work to have social interactions. I go to work to make money. I do my job, and well. I don't want to hear anyone's personal opinions on anything, I don't want to know about their lives either. I want to do my job in silence and end my day when it's done. Matter of fact, I don't want to make friends anywhere.

by Anonymous 1 month ago

And that's your choice, but that either because you have already made your friends, in which case I would ask where it was that you made them, or because you don't want friends, in which case that's not the typical outlook

by Anonymous 1 month ago

And that's your choice. But I'd argue that wanting no friends, whilst it may work for you, is not desirable to most people

by Anonymous 1 month ago

I'm 100% for third spaces, but the bigger challenge with those is making them into places that an individual person can go an make friends, instead of people already needing friends in order to go and make more. That's what I'd say that the work environment does well, you make a bond of necessity, end up actually quite liking a person, you then go to a third space with then, which then opens up opportunities for you to meet their friends, and visa versa, or to meet people whilst there. But that doesn't gappen without the initial forced interaction through work

by Anonymous 1 month ago

It's unpopular, but I agree. It's good actually to have to be around people who you usually wouldn't be.

by Anonymous 1 month ago