Using inmates to fight the wildfires in California shouldn't be seen as such an outrage, amirite?

They literally volunteered to do it

by anastasiaruecke 3 weeks ago

Not only volunteered but are given job training and can work in the field after their release. It's the system doing what people want (rehabilitation and job training) yet they complain.

by skileszetta 3 weeks ago

This wasn't always the case. Earlier they couldn't then get jobs as firefighters in CA after release. That aspect used to be legitimate outrage that has since changed and people aren't always aware.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They can get jobs in wildland fire, which is different than a local structure fire department. Usually wildland is handled by the feds and state governments and are almost always looking to hire people.

by swiftmarlon 3 weeks ago

They also pay the least for the hardest work with the longest hours

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

The complaints are from improper compensation, the same reasoning why people dislike internships despite also providing experience for entering the work force.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I don't think people have issues with program like these, it's with how much they're being compensated! These programs are amazing, but when you're paying literally like $5 (or less) for a whole shift of firefighting, that's when it becomes exploitative!

by roma42 3 weeks ago

Except there is no evidence of China killing Uyghurs and the USA declaring that a genocide got real awkward after the latest round of Gaza bombings...notice the USA stfu about that real quick lol.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I wonder if the lack of freedom to cover China's human rights abuses against those people in that region has anything to do with that. But despite that, would you agree that paid forced labor is still forced labor?

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Your logic is that it's OK to declare it a genocide without any knowledge of even a single dead person, because it's happening and you just haven't heard about it because lack of reporters?

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Genocide is a handful of actions done against a targeted group of people done for the purpose of eradicating that identity. It goes beyond just killing. BIG surprise to nobody - the North Korean apologist refuses to either denounce slave labor or grotesque crimes against humanity being committed by China, and instead does the "WELL AKKKTCHUALLLLYYY, it's not TECHNICALLY genocide because they're still alive!! Also did you know that USA bad???" nonsense

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

"WELL AKKKTCHUALLLLYYY, it's not TECHNICALLY genocide because they're still alive!! ...Bro...lol

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

This.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

they literally have their records expunged for completing this program lol. lots of them get hired on private hot shot crews.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I can't find it right now - but I read an article that it's still not that easy to get one recorded expunged, just easy after bill #AB2147 was pased - and it is definitely not automatic after completing the program. I'm willing to be corrected.

by PolicyShort89 3 weeks ago

this is absolutely not true

by scottywillms 3 weeks ago

People will do basically anything to get out of prison. This program might be good, haven't looked into it much, but it looks horrible on our society to have basically slave labor

by Dependent_Weather 3 weeks ago

basically slave labor you clearly don't know what the definition of the word slave. You would prefer prisoners rot in cells with no hope of any job in the future?

by skileszetta 3 weeks ago

I don't think any of us are knowledgeable enough on how prison labor works to know if they truly volunteered or if they've been voluntold to work. Prisons embrace slave labor, they shouldn't be given benefit of the doubt.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I've been to prison. They can't force you to work, let alone fight massive fires putting your life at risk. I know for certain they willingly volunteered. They may not get paid well but they're getting to go outside of the razor wire fence, see some of the outside world, and (if they care about this) help their community.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

this may be a stupid question but are they not being compensated with room/ board, healthcare, etc.? No. The state is holding them against their will.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

yes, i assume many that are sentenced for a crime are being held against their will

by langoshmaudie 3 weeks ago

The compulsory nature of being imprisoned excludes the possibility of any kind of theoretical transaction happening between you and your captors. What a ridiculous thing to suggest. Did the slaves in the American South owe their plantation owners for giving them room and board? Of course not.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

"volunteered" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there lol

by Krystalspinka 3 weeks ago

how so?

by Necessary_Law 3 weeks ago

Systemic duress

by AggravatingRub4814 3 weeks ago

It would be like giving a person the choice of being executed by firing squad or lethal injection, them choosing legal injection, and then saying they "volunteered" for lethal injection. If you have few rights and no leverage, you're not really "volunteering" for anything. Inmates should have fewer rights, no doubt, but this is a bridge too far.

by Krystalspinka 3 weeks ago

Honestly, I think it's fantastic. Many of the volunteers have really appreciated the opportunity, and many still are even thinking of considering firefighting as a career path once their sentences are over. Given the alternatives that they have, it is a very redeeming thing. I saw the testimonials from the inmates out there and you can tell it's rewarding not only for them to give back, but to feel they have a purpose/duty that contributes to such a needed cause.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

It wouldn't be as big of an issue if they were being paid properly. Instead, they are just using glorified slave labor to fight dangerous fires.

by Loyal86 3 weeks ago

Yeah I think that just adds to the outrage for me. We're all being taking advantage of by the rich, and so trying to divide us up like "well teachers don't even get paid enough…" just takes away from the fact that we're all closer to each other than any of us are to the ultra wealthy who are exploiting us! We need solidarity, not fighting amongst the poor.

by roma42 3 weeks ago

it's volunteered nobody is forcing them to do it, and personally if I had a 40 years sentence I'd kill(no pun intended) for an opportunity to be outside and have some sort of purpose. It would beat rotting away for 40 years doing nothing.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

That reminds me of a quote; "People are free under capitalism, they have the freedom to choose between being exploited or being dead"

by AggravatingRub4814 3 weeks ago

How is that relevant to the point I'm making?

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Your argument isn't that they're not being coerced, just that you're fine with it.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

So you're against prison as punishment? Bud

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Not sure how you got that from what I said. Try again?

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Truly living up to your username, I see

by MaleficentAddress 3 weeks ago

"I don't think they should only be paid a dollar an hour" "Oh, so you want to abolish prison?" These are two different things. Use your head.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Because the government is using force to confine you for 40 years, you are not actually volunteering. You are coerced

by jennie85 3 weeks ago

"Volunteered." I'm sure the US prison system is above forcing prisoners to partake in dangerous activities

by Loyal86 3 weeks ago

If there's any evidence that it's not the case California has a serious human rights case in their future Were you born yesterday? That is not how America works.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

It is. The US Prison System gets money for having full prisons, hucking some into the fire means they aren't in the prison anymore and its not full, ergo they get less money.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

People die and leave prison every day. People are arrested every day. I'm sure they won't have any trouble filling their spot after they die.

by Loyal86 3 weeks ago

"since, some people are underpaid, no one should expect fair compensation"

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

There's a big difference between paying teachers an actual living wage (which we absolutely should do) and paying inmates putting their lives at risk less than $1 per hour.

by Krystalspinka 3 weeks ago

I don't think there is because it's a lot of the same minded people making these decisions. Their excuse is going to be that they're inmates, they find any excuse not to pay people well.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Slight difference when you could burn to death for like $1/hour

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I bet it's more fun than sitting in a jail cell though

by Shot-Tea 3 weeks ago

Provided you don't burn to death, sure

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Nah, I would take jail cell over burning to death

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

That's the thing, incarcerated firefighters don't usually burn to death

by Shot-Tea 3 weeks ago

If you had to prioritze one of those groups because city/county budgets are limited, which would you choose? A Southern Californian city near me ran out of money in its budget recently and had to lay off all the school crossing guards, so these are very real decisions that have to be made.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They paid school crossing guards? That's a super easy role to fill entirely with volunteers where I live

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

This is also a great point to my statement. Thank you, especially for bringing awareness to the crossing guards situation.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They're fearless and selfless actually saving lives for 5 dollars a day while doing good deeds on the ground putting out small fires

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

You think the fire isn't the headline?

by auerantonina 3 weeks ago

The outrage is because they are pretty much forced to do this work, and supposedly getting paid $25 a day which is miles below the pitiful US minimum wage. These people because they have been convicted of crimes can't even cash in the experience to work in a fire brigade after they've served their sentence. Prison labour isn't far off slave labour and that's one of the biggest arguments against using them, if they were properly compensated and weren't going to face punishments for refusing, the public would be more understanding. I think the public would be more welcoming of retired fire personnel or people asking for a secondment from out of state to help with the wildfires, as they'd be trained and competent people who are able to do more, and would be more fairly compensated for their assistance.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

pretty much forced to do this work, Where have you got this from? They're volunteers.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They aren't forced, they are volunteers.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Idk what kind of hours they're working, but federal minimum is 7.25 which only takes 4 hours of work to reach 25. So, if they are working longer than that, they are below minimum wage.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

this past week I've been seeing articles daily on this to the point where it was difficult to find information about the non inmate firefighters and not one of them ever has input from an inmate fighting fires. Generally when I've dug deeper I've mostly found inmates saying its beneficial because they can get a significant amount of time off their sentence but it would be nice if peoples first source on this was the actual inmates and not their judgement of whether its fair.

by Shaylee82 3 weeks ago

The bitchs complaining about inmates fighting fires to try and save their homes need a slap upside their heads. They should be dragged to the front l8nes to fight the fires themselves

by Stromanlottie 3 weeks ago

I think it's the fact that they're getting paid like $1/hour for me, regardless of if they volunteered or not.

by Hot_Government_698 3 weeks ago

What happens to the ones that refuse…

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Slavery is always wrong, and "pro-profit" prisons are an abomination.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

No one is outraged

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

I am of two minds; meaningful work is one of the better methods of rehabilitating criminals. Every time they study it, ex-cons who spent their time in prison doing something positive, including work, tend to go back to prison a lot less. We all see work as this unbearable burden, to a lot of people sitting in prison they had such a twisted upbringing that they never really did work in any honest capacity, and when they finally do the urge to remain a criminal starts going away. On the other hand, I do not support work as a way of penance or continued punishment. The whole idea, in my mind, is give them the taste of how to do it honestly, treat them like actual human beings, and maybe it will spurn some evolution in them [the con]. Unfortunately, a lot of people simply see them [cons] as being expendable.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Woah, the LA is on fire? Literally not one headline has been about that. It's just wall to wall prisoners. People get worked up about slavery in the USA, it's just tradition at this point

by Kaiacruickshank 3 weeks ago

is it really volunteering if the alternative is being in a cage? Also the training offered is very limited in scope and firefighting is more competitive of a field than you may think. They are used as "fill in the gap" labor and any benefit to them is purely coincidental.

by Nearby-Parfait-4873 3 weeks ago

Op in the 1800s: "slavery shouldn't be seen as an outrage, think of the economy!"

by Illustrious-Exam8194 3 weeks ago

It's a good program, but they deserve to be compensated fairly for the insanely dangerous work they're doing. Being a wildland firefighter will net you about $100,000 a year and they're paying these guys $5 a day.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Wild land firefighters get $15 an hour. So they'd need to work roughly 5000 hours (assuming time and a half for 3k of those hours) to net 100k lmao.

by fredaweimann 3 weeks ago

In my state Wildland firefighters get minimum wage...it's a bunch of people being exploited who legitimately just want to help.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

It's funny that there are outrages about it considering CBS has a show dedicated to the premise 😂

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Nobody is being forced. They are all volunteers. Hopefully they are not risks for escape or bad behavior, but given the general incompetence of the California government, it is mostly hope.

by psimonis 3 weeks ago

They're litterally slaves & you think they have a choice? All I can say is, Betty White...

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

If we are going to pay them like a usual civilian I expect them to cover the cost of their healthcare, food, and costs associated with their confinement. Seeing that it costs $133,000 to incarcerate someone in California, they would end up in the negatives. So I think their compensation is fair.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They're not paid the same so you can turn the blood pressure down. All that typing and you could have saved yourself the upset by actually getting informed

by Lazy-Association-406 3 weeks ago

Lmao so you made up a situation that doesn't exist?

by Lazy-Association-406 3 weeks ago

Inmates? Why shouldn't the people of the community volunteer?

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

Maybe the nay sayers should ask the pridoners who volunteered for it, got a few days out of prison, may even be getting paid, what they think of people's "concerns".

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

The only controversy I see is that it takes away from jobs that non inmates could do. But the positives outweigh it.

by Large_Independent 3 weeks ago

Who is outraged? The liberals that created this mess? Shocking.

by Anonymous 3 weeks ago

They are probably happy to be helping, probably getting some different food, freedom and camaraderie

by Own-Clock-6922 3 weeks ago