+63 Immigrants to the US only come from "bad" countries because citizens of "good" countries would be taking a step backward, amirite?

by ImaginaryDirector785 7 months ago

I'm from the UK. I moved to California two years ago. If you're a skilled or specialised worker (as I am) you're going to have a significantly higher salary in the US and a significantly higher purchasing power to boot. To say nothing about things like weather, access to nature etc. The US isn't for everyone by any means, but saying immigrants from Europe would be taking a step backwards is a bit sweeping. I'm not going to excuse the US healthcare system, its poor workers rights and its car-centric infrastructure, but if you're a skilled worker it's very much swings and roundabouts

by Ill_Swing 7 months ago

Engineer who looked at the other direction for funsies, I'd agree it looked nowhere near worth it. Even with paying for healthcare I think I'm still coming out like 10-20% a head by staying and would have better ease of starting a company if my career goes that route. (Hopeful for that early retirement and then go see Europe lol).

by OrangeBrief491 7 months ago

What percentage of people in your country make what you make or higher?

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Let's ease up on the term "high quality healthcare" bc that's not really an accurate assessment of US healthcare system. And it's def not free

by Anonymous 7 months ago

No, it is. There's a difference between healthcare ACCESS, which is poor in the US, but the actual treatment and quality of care itself is extremely high for those who have access.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

If you work as a software engineer you can have access to very high quality healthcare. The problem in the US is cost not quality. You probably have better healthcare as a tech worker in the US than the EU.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

You could easily buy a house in many UK cities on c.£70k, let alone an apartment.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

What I meant was, my salary was about £35k when I left (I lived in Paris for a couple of years before I moved to the US. French salaries are more or less comparable to UK salaries, maybe a tiny bit lower but not much). You couldn't buy a flat on that, at least not in the SE of England or IdF

by Ill_Swing 7 months ago

This X1000 USA is better a lot of the time for people who did something with their lives. My job pays another $15hour before conversion in California with living allowances. A career I tried to switch to starts $40k higher state side, again before conversion.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

USA is great if you earn well and horrible if you don't. There's no in between. In Europe you can have an ok life even with lower income because of free education and healthcare. However, it's very hard if not impossible to earn a lot here. I would never leave Europe but I totally get why someone that is good at what they do and is willing to work a lot would move to the US. In Europe it simply doesn't pay off.

by ContributionHot 7 months ago

You've obviously not been in a good college town. There's people coming here from what you would consider a "good" country constantly, on a wide variety of visas, temporarily and permanently. It just doesn't get media coverage.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

People from Europe immigrate to the US on a daily basis…

by Anonymous 7 months ago

It's mostly going to be from the poorer Eastern European countries; not France, Germany, or the UK

by Anonymous 7 months ago

The United Kingdom and Germany were the two largest sources of immigration from Europe in 2022.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Those countries were 'pass through' countries for people from places like syria, afgan, saudi...et al.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Source?

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Rates of European immigration to us are on decline while us citizens emigrating to Europe has been increasing.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

And? The point is that the highest immigrants from European countries to the U.S. are not from "poor" countries.

by Ill-Data-6401 7 months ago

Net Migration is still higher to the United States from Europe (including Western Europe), and always has been.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

No it's largely the educated ones who want to make more money for their work.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

A lot of people want out of the UK.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

For the most part it's the well educated ones. The get a cheap education in Europe and then move to the US to make a lot of money. Especially if you're in tech, you can make significantly more in the US than in Europe.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

That's just simply not true!

by Cheap_Aside 7 months ago

Whatever you say. I've met way more people in the US who were born in Russia than I have people who were born in France

by Anonymous 7 months ago

My experience is exactly the opposite. We have a lot from France and Germany.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

This is called anecdotal evidence. It's not considered reliable in a debate. Doesn't matter who's right, you can't win it using this point of view(your personal experience).

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Well that's could because Russia population is way bigger than France's but yes less people would want to move if they have a good life too

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Smart people avoid you

by Jastmeghan 7 months ago

Immigration from Europe is mostly Germany and the UK. Not just historically, but still to this day.

by hayesnicolas 7 months ago

This is not true. And if it is, someone might need to let all of my helicopter pilots from Germany/Austria/Finland know. I don't think they realize they're poor.

by Icy-Simple1661 7 months ago

Mostly? Perhaps. But tens of thousands of people move to the US from those countries every year.

by SwimmingOriginal8110 7 months ago

UK is currently arresting people for their opinions on Facebook. I don't care about free healthcare care as much as I care about my freedom of expression.

by farrelljacklyn 7 months ago

Are they really, or is this just a bunch of right wing nonsense?

by Anonymous 7 months ago

These days, if you say you're English, you'll get arrested and thrown in jail.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Right wing nonsense obviously 🙄

by MatterMuted 7 months ago

The ultimate stoic masculine übermensch yet always swooning to the ground over some made up offence.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Why don't you tell us what those lyrics were exactly. Go on.

by jeromy67 7 months ago

most american aswer ever

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Thanks?

by farrelljacklyn 7 months ago

You don't get that here in the USA. They will kill you for that.

by Quirky-Smoke-4259 7 months ago

Explain…please

by farrelljacklyn 7 months ago

Not true

by Cheap_Aside 7 months ago

And vice versa

by Anonymous 7 months ago

This is just wrong. There's good reason that the United States is a net importer of people vs every country but 2. For its myriad of issues, it's still the most prosperous country and offers more opportunities to any person of any background.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Net importer is not an accurate analogy. Americans don't even leave the country for travel. Something like 80% never leave the state they were born in.

by ImaginaryDirector785 7 months ago

Is 11 something like 80, because it's 11 percent. A simple Google search would have confirmed this for you.

by GrowthDry 7 months ago

Where are you getting this information? That's not even close to accurate.

by Ok_Put 7 months ago

Not true for the most talented in those countries. The best surgeons and scientists in the USA come from countries with "robust welfare ".

by Anonymous 7 months ago

The US healthcare system has been great to me and mine. We need to better cover the group between those that get government assistance and those that have decent insurance through work. However, the idea of a public only insurance beholden to US politicians terrifies me.

by Late_Let 7 months ago

True. Countries with "robust welfare" lack innovation and advancements.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Wow, apparently I've met basically the entire 1% by your standard

by ImportantPurchase 7 months ago

You do realize we get tons of immigrants from first world countries and even more that would immigrate here if we let them right?

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Europe is a far better place to live economically That entirely depends on which European country you're living in. I was an immigrant to the US from a fairly wealthy country - I moved there for better education and more opportunities. I have moved away since but still have multiple businesses that operate in the United States. You cannot compete with the level of opportunities that the US affords you.

by Wild-Builder 7 months ago

If this were true, I wouldn't have been born.

by Remote-Loss 7 months ago

You have to be so out of touch to actually believe this.

by Kundemireya 7 months ago

I work in tech and have European coworkers from middle class backgrounds…

by Legitimate-Dog 7 months ago

Close. If you are in tech or a something else that is well compensated you might come for high pay and lower ish taxes

by Anonymous 7 months ago

as far as I know US has good salaries compared to another developed countries? or am I wrong? At least that's the case of Canada.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Good salaries, yes, absolutely. But terrible worker's rights and work/life balance. I think the USA works for people who value money, but if you care more about quality of life you're probably going to be less interested,

by Anonymous 7 months ago

My husband lived in Massachusetts for a few years but he moved specially for grad school there. While I love living in Europe our salaries are vastly different

by Anonymous 7 months ago

This isn't unpopular, it's ill-informed

by Curious_Glove514 7 months ago

There are no rules devoid of exceptions.

by BatLeading8979 7 months ago

Really depends on how much money they stand to make by immigrating to the US. If your prospective pay increase from immigrating will more than make up for paying for medical, education, etc then it would still make sense to immigrate.

by binsashley 7 months ago

Which is the majority of skilled labor if I recall correctly

by OrangeBrief491 7 months ago

Immigrants to western developed countries come from a wide variety of different countries. This includes immigrants from other developed countries. With that said, the reason why so many immigrants come from "bad" countries is because people tend to migrate as a means to improve their standard of living. If you already have the opportunity to have a decent standard of living in your home country you're far less likely to want to move elsewhere.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

For the average person yes, quality of life is going to be lower coming from Europe. But for the highly skilled, they have an opportunity to make higher salary if they're willing to sacrifice universal healthcare, robust social safety nets etc.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Anecdotal.

by ImaginaryDirector785 7 months ago

A lot of people from "good" countries immigrate here. You're conflating "immigrants" with "immigrants the right doesn't want to immigrate." No one talks about immigrants from "good" countries. But they do exist.

by Ecstatic-Service-220 7 months ago

People go where there's opportunity or the perception of opportunity. So if you're not doing great in your home country or think you can be doing better here. Then yes. Just means people have less opportunities from some countries than others

by Johanna91 7 months ago

I've worked with a lot of Europeans in the USA. Ambitious professionals find Europe stifling because it generally has more of a "wait your turn" and "don't rock the boat" culture. America has many flaws but it's an amazing place if you are highly skilled and ambitious. You will make more money, pay less tax, and be less held back by tradition/age/etc.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Agree with this. But the majority of workers in any country are not the ambitious professionals. The majority workers in every country are the average spreadsheet pusher, manual laborer, etc. Way better to be in Europe if you are one of those.

by ImaginaryDirector785 7 months ago

Sure, but the people coming are always dedicated and goal-oriented. Can you imagine packing up your entire family and taking them to another country? Any idea how much courage and strength that requires? Those are the people we want here.

by Impressive-Tax-3789 7 months ago

Obviously depends on the EU country, but generally I'd say EU is better to be poor - middle class, US is better to be upper middle - wealthy. These words obviously mean different things to different people, but for the US in a HCOL area (1 bedroom rents for ~$2K), I think if your HH income is above $120,000 and you have health insurance through your work, you are better off living in the US.

by hoseahoeger 7 months ago

Exactly my point.

by ImaginaryDirector785 7 months ago

On a mass scale, this is so obvious as to be pointless to say. Most people immigrate for better economic opportunities, so if you're already in a comparably rich (or richer) country there's little need. Of course some people will immigrate for reasons of love or adventure or a particular job opportunity. By the way this is hardly unique to the US. The immigrants flooding into Europe are coming from poor and unstable countries, not from, say, Japan. Or, for that matter, from the United States.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

And yet Europeans are moving to the US, much more so than Americans are moving to Europe.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Most people who have a high income skill will be better off in the US. I know many doctors who have moved or want to move. For Software US is an obvious choice. For any kind of engineering the pay discrepancy is also extremely high. Infact, I have friends who are professors who moved to the US because of the opportunities

by Anonymous 7 months ago

You realize that social net only benefits poor people right? For the non-poor, it's a net negative due to high tax and brain drain has been a significant issue in europe for decades.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

People only come from bad countries because the us is racist actually

by kochroslyn 7 months ago

German immigrant here. I was undocumented from the time my visa expired as a child until well into my 20s. I'm so tired of hearing people talk about who immigrants are or what they are like when they have no idea what the lived experience and the trauma is like.

by Fanniesanford 7 months ago

People typically don't migrate anywhere unless they have some reason to do so.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

You are underestimating the power that "earning way more" has. If in Canada you could earn $1000/hour as a day laborer, a lot of americans would be working illegally in canada. The motivation to migrate is not based solely on the safety nets and access to higher education, which is pretty inaccessible in the US.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Have you looked at the statistics of immigration? This isn't an opinion, its just counterfactual. Look up how many unauthorized people and legal immigrants are in the US from wherever you deem a good country

by Accomplished-Net7918 7 months ago

For young, smart and motivated ones, US provides a great growth opportunity with amazing salaries. I'm from Benelux and would move to US without hesitation, if I would not already work for an US based company and have US level compensation already. With such combination living in EU is better indeed

by Legal-Switch-8859 7 months ago

Do you mean illegal immigrants?

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Please don't come to the UK. We don't want Americans. You had your chance and you left.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Pretty sure Americans fought to leave, lol. A lot of us wouldn't want to go to the UK aside from a vacation.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Anyone with a pot to piss in is looking to flea the UK. The UK was number two only behind China in the number of millionaires leaving. Japan's currency is collapsing. Germany and China are entering depressions. The middle class is absolutely trapped in Canada. Your opinion is a few years old.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Whats the unpopular opinion?

by MatterMuted 7 months ago

Factually wrong. Most of the highest performing people are leaving Europe for the US. Europe is a hellscape for innovators. It has nothing better to do than deciding which connector tor should go with phones.

by Anonymous 7 months ago

Hopefully you have immigrated to another country

by Anonymous 7 months ago

There is still higher net migration from Europe (including western Europe) to the United States.

by Anonymous 7 months ago